lauren3210: (Default)
[personal profile] lauren3210
Aha! Finally found where I put this essay! (I saved it in my download file, for some strange reason.) Anyway, let's try this again?

I've been wanting to write a Draco Malfoy specific essay for a while, and a recent conversation with a friend - about subjectivity in interpretation - finally gave me the push to do it, so here it is. Because the thing is, I really don't like the connotation that "canon vs. fanon" has within the context of interpretation; it tastes of one point of view trying to invalidate another, which is something I am vehemently against. Of course, there are some things that are utterly ridiculous - you can't in good conscience argue that canon supports the theory that Harry was actually a centaur, for example - and there are some things that are basic facts that you can't ignore in order to support your interpretation. You cannot argue that Harry Potter wasn't a bone-deep good guy for example. But for everything else that falls in between the utterly ridiculous and the basic canon facts are open to interpretation.

So I wanted to talk about this, especially in relation to Draco Malfoy, because I feel that he is one such character where the idea of canon vs. fanon comes into play rather a lot in regards to his interpretation; he even has a tv trope named after him - Draco In Leather Pants - which is specifically about the so-called divide between canon facts and fanon interpretation. So, under the cut, is an extremely long essay about my interpretation of the character, with a view to pointing out that even though others may not share that interpretation - even the creator herself - that doesn't mean it's not a valid one. Plus there's also just plain Draco feels, set out in an academic form in an attempt to disguise my fangirling.

(Before anyone clicks, I feel I should put a caveat here: I adore the Harry Potter series. I think that JKR is one of the most amazing, intelligent women on this earth, and that she deserves all the accolades laid at her feet and more. She should have a monument erected in her honour, and I will forever thank her for bringing female writers to the forefront of literature in such a brilliant, unique, amazing way. So, if I come across as a little critical in this essay, please know that it comes from a place of love, and that this takes up only 1% of my overall feelings for the series; the other 99% is too busy flailing over its brilliance.)

When I was an undergrad at university, I took a mandatory course called Reading, Theory, and Interpretation. It involved a lot of heavy, mind boggling material: Dr Faustus; The Crying of Lot 49; Prometheus Bound, to name just a very few. We'd have a lecture on the set material for an hour and then break up into seminar groups to discuss with our TAs the various points the professor had brought up, and then we'd all have to go away and write a mini essay on whatever we'd been reading, which we would then hand out to the entire class the following week. It was a good learning method: we'd all get to see different ways of interpreting the same material, understand how different approaches to things and different life experiences could lead us to looking at things in certain ways. And, because it was a first year undergrad course (and we were all young naive students fresh from A levels where they gave us the opinion we were supposed to have) it wasn't until we got to our exams and were able to write completely rounded on-the-spot essays that we realised just how accurate the name of the course was. It was literally a crash course in how to read and interpret material and form our own opinions, while also teaching us how to understand and appreciate that others can and will have other points of view on the same things. It was like a flashing neon sign telling us all forget what you learned in school, guys, university English Lit. is about the individual.


In my particular seminar group, we had quite an eclectic set of students. I was a young mother at the time, and was quite often called upon to share my views with regards to that. We had a few Canadian and American exchange students who, bless them, struggled quite a lot with most of the very British course material. We also had a couple of French exchange students, of whom I was quite in awe; I found it difficult enough just keeping up with the workload, I couldn't even imagine trying to cope with it all being in a second language. But one of these French students stood out in particular, because he had a certain way of looking at things. It didn't matter if we were studying Greek Tragedies or 19th Century novels, this guy could always find a way to relate it back to: Star Trek. It was... strange, to say the least, and I'm a little ashamed to say that it became a little bit of a joke within our group (but in a nice way, we weren't mean or anything); we'd always be waiting to see what he would do next. Because once you've read a comparison essay on how Frankenstein is Captain Kirk and his monster is Spock, that's something that you just can't ever unsee.

Although I often thought about that French guy during the rest of my time at university, it wasn't until I'd finished that I realised that somewhere in those intervening years, I had become just like him. Not with Star Trek, because as much as I like the franchise I've never been much of a fan beyond watching nearly all of the episodes. Nope, instead I became the Harry Potter version of my strange little French guy. You name it, and I bet I could find a way to relate it back to HP in some way or another, because I'm not just a fan of the books (although I am that too); I have a PhD in it. I've given lectures to undergrad students on it, I've set and graded final year level exam papers on it; my entire career is based on it.

The reason why I'm starting off this essay with this information is because I want people to understand that I
know that my obsession is based purely on my own interpretation of the series. Because as much as I have studied the material, as much as I have written and about and discussed at length this series of books, it all started with that first mandatory course. I know that depsite the fact that I can quite literally and truthfully say "I have a degree in Harry Potter", that does not make my own interpretation any more valid than that of anyone else. It's why I subsribe with absolution to the Author is Dead principle, and it's why I get quite annoyed when people try to tell me that my intepretation of Draco Malfoy is wrong.

So, the rest of this essay is about my interpretation of the character Draco Malfoy: why I love him; why I defend him (without excusing him), and why I think that his character arc was a dropped ball within the overall narrative, and the impact that had on the series as a whole. If you made it this far, congrats: you're about to get inundated with feels in a pseudo-academic setting, yay!


The Many Interpretations



After spending some time within the fandom – and the Harry/Draco corner of the fandom in particular – I have noticed that there seems to be three main problems when it comes to interpreting Draco Malfoy as a character:


  • Disagreement about what qualities the Slytherin House (and therefore Draco) represents

  • Lack of other fully fleshed out Slytherin characters


  • A reliance on what the author has said outside of the text.



When discussing these points, one must understand that the points of evidence we're using to come to our conclusions have a degree of unreliability to them. One of the first things we learn about Slytherin House comes from Hagrid, who declares that “there's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin.” This statement, as we find out in Book 3, is actually quite wrong. This is also one of the first pieces of information the audience receives about the school itself, and by the time we turn up with Harry to the Sorting Ceremony, all we know is that Gryffindor “sounds by far the best... Dumbledore himself was in it;” Ravenclaw “wouldn't be too bad;” Huffleuffs “are a lot o' duffers,” but still, “Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin,” because aparently, “You-Know-Who was one.” Because of this, we as readers, along with Harry, are automatically prejudiced against this House that we haven't even met yet. We are also prejudiced against that pale boy in Madam Malkin's shop, because the first thing we learn about him is that he already knows he's going to be in Slytherin.


Canonically however, there are actually very few attributes connected with Slytherin within the text. The Sorting Hat sings three songs throughout the series, and in these it describes Slytherin House as “cunning,” and with “great ambition”, and that's it. Dumbledore describes the type of Students Salazar Slytherin preferred as “resourcefulness - determination -- a certain disregard for rules...”If we look critically at this list of character traits, none of them are decidedly negative: indeed, Harry himself is pointed out as having all of these attributes, by both the Sorting Hat and Professor Dumbledore. So where does the negative outlook on Slytherin House come from, within the text itself?


This question leads us into the second point of this discussion, because it is mainly Draco himself who gives us this rather negative view of his House. With the exception of a few notable adults, Draco is the only fully fleshed out Slytherin character; Crabbe, Goyle, and Parkinson are nothing more than Malfoy sycophants, caricatures of the similar dynamics within Gryffindor House. Because of this, it is only through Harry's observations of Draco that we can make draw conclusions on what the rest of Slytherin House are like.


In the first 5 books at least, Draco Malfoy is a bully: one who delights in seeing others vulnerable, who covets the limelight and takes pride in putting others down, who thinks of his own safety first. We see from the few interactions outside school that he is both spoiled “I think I'll bully father into getting me [a racing broom]” and expected great things from “Though if his grades don't pick up,” said Mr. Malfoy, more coldly still, “[a thief or a plunderer] may indeed be all he is fit for -”. He quite clearly believes that his father is someone he should look up to, and parrots his father's opinions as though they were facts. He is dismissive of anyone who does not live up to his standards, and enjoys being at the centre of any attention that favours him with a positive light. He's also quite cowardly; whereas Harry keeps his two friends close because he loves them, Draco keeps Crabbe and Goyle close because he needs them to act as a buffer between himself and trouble.


It seems then, that with the lack of other such rounded characters, these traits belonging to Draco alone are transferred onto Slytherin House as a whole within the text. When the rest of the Slytherins laugh at a nasty comment made by Draco, it is thought that this is because Draco is simply voicing the opinions of the House as a whole, rather than the sociological fact that people, when placed within a deindividualising place – such as a school – will often display 'herd mentality' when faced with social decisions. Draco is a bully; therefore all Slytherins are bullies.


However, the text also gives us examples to the contrary, most notably in the form of one Zacharias Smith. Smith is also a bully; indeed all of the above traits assigned to Draco can also be used to describe our resident Hufflepuff too. We also have textual evidence of other Slytherins who do not conform to Draco's particular representation of Slytherin House: Severus Snape; Regulus Black, and Horace Slughorn. While evidence can be given for the former two having conformed to Draco's ideals at least during their school years (and beyond, in the case of Snape), the same cannot be said for the latter. Therefore, we have textual evidence that not all bullies are Slytherins, and that not all Slytherins are bullies. It stands to reason then, that there must be some Slytherin students who don't adhere to Draco's version, and that the House as a whole has been unfairly painted with negativity due to the actions of its most prominent member.


There are, of course, a few other Slytherin characters who rear their metaphorical ugly heads and display their supposed 'Slytherin' traits at opportune times. Crabbe suddenly decides to gain a personality other than “henchman no.1” during the Fiendfyre incident, deciding that being “rewarded” by the Drak Lord was a much better life plan than helping fight Voldemort. And then, of course, there's Pansy Parkinson:


Then a figure rose from the Slytherin table and he recognized Pansy Parkinson as she raised a shaking arm and screamed, "But he's there! Potter's there. Someone grab him!”


This quote is often used to prove the fact that 'self-preservation' is a Slytherin trait; that Slytherins will, and do, put themselves before others if it means ensuring their own survival. McGonagall even uses this sudden outburst as the catalyst for removing all Slytherin students from the school. The problem this has is that 'self-preservation' has never been an explicitly stated Slytherin trait within the text itself. It's certainly a valid interpretation, one that can be backed up by the Sorting Hat's description that Slytherins “use any means to achieve their ends.” It's even been shown in the text, when we've seen Draco and his cohorts backing away from soon-to-explode cauldrons, or terrifying beasts that Hagrid has made them approach. It wouldn't be out of context to suggest that in fact, self-preservation is a Slytherin character trait that we the readers are meant to infer, as it happens so often. However, there is one glaring exception to this: Draco Malfoy, the supposed Voice of Slytherin House.


When placed in the same position as Pansy Parkinson, given the option of being rewarded for giving up Harry Potter, Draco... doesn't. Instead, he prevaricates, looks away from Harry instead of looking close and refuses to even give a positive identification of either Hermione or Ron, despite the fact that they are both unchanged in appearance. Odd then, that the character used to represent Slytherin traits in their entirety doesn't always adhere to the self-preservation attribute that Rowling has told us about in interviews. It suggests a dissonance between what the author intended to say, versus what actually comes across within the text.


My Interpretation




Which is where we segue into my own personal interpretation of Draco Malfoy, and why I subscribe to the Author is Dead principle, because Rowling has said a lot in interviews etc. that I don't take into account. One such soundbite is the following quote:


People have been waxing lyrical [in letters] about Draco Malfoy, and I think that's the only time when it stopped amusing me and started almost worrying me. I'm trying to clearly distinguish between Tom Felton, who is a good-looking young boy, and Draco, who, whatever he looks like, is not a nice man.”


Statements like this is one of the reasons why I personally don't use outside influences from the author to guide my opinions and interpretations of the text, because there is a glaring error in this quote: We the readers, never actually meet Draco as a man. We only know him from the age of eleven to eighteen; throughout all of the decisions he makes and the bad things he says and does, he is a child.


Having been brought up surrounded by opulence and over-indulgence, Draco is a spoilt brat. After spending most of his childhood the pampered only son to a family who thinks of lineage and birthright as paramount, he is used to being the centre of attention. After having his offer of friendship turned down by Harry on the train, he reacts with typical spoilt behaviour: he has a tantrum, and thus begins the school years long feud between Harry and Draco. It's clear that his parents would have discouraged any previous friendships between Draco and anyone thought of as 'undesirable', so by the time he arrives at school, all Draco knows he has learned from Death Eaters. He dislikes Muggles and Muggleborns because his father dislikes them; he thinks Dumbledore is an idiot because his father says so; he thinks he should be the centre of attention because he always has been; he thinks he should be afforded more rights for being a pureblooded wizard because his parents and all their friends think so. He wants to be a Death Eater and supports Voldemort because that's what his parents think.


And then he becomes a Death Eater, and he realises exactly what it means, and with his father in Azkaban and his opulent home overtaken by snakes and Dark Lords, he stops finding it fun and starts thinking of it as just plain scary. And yet he perseveres in his task, because if he doesn't his family are at risk of punishment. He cries in front of Moaning Mytle, but hides it from everyone else, including his friends, because he cannot show weakness. When he finally gets up to the Tower, he can't trust Dumbledore, because he's spent the past sixteen years of his life being told that the headmaster was nothing but a bumbling fool. And yet he still wants some kind of recognition from Dumbledore, takes time to point out all the clever ways in which he managed to almost complete the assignment that everyone assumed he would fail. He spends the summer before seventh year mostly terrified in his own home, with his father a mere shadow of what Draco had once believed him to be, and his mother still and silent. His entire worldview has been upended, enough to make him prevaricate instead of pointing out Harry, and when he later encounters him in the Room of Requirement, he's not antagonistic, just wants to deliver Harry to Voldemort and get it over with.


A lot of his antagonistic behaviour throughout the books comes from his hatred of Harry, from the fact that Harry spurned him in the beginning, manifesting into rage as he has to sit back and watch Harry in the limelight – that he has been told he had rightful ownership of – and have to see Harry's fame, and his (from Draco's point of view) preferential treatment from the professors – the last minute adjustments to House Points, being allowed on the Quidditch team despite being a First year caught on a broom, for examples. The rest of it is due to how he was brought up; he was raised to believe that he was better than others, and has to do a lot of rearranging of everything that he's known to be true in a very short amount of time.


To be honest, I could 'wax lyrical' about his character practically forever, but even from this short description, it is easy to see that my interpretation of Draco Malfoy is wildly different from that of his creator, who describes him as “not a nice man” with “real moral cowardice.” The Author is Dead principle doesn't confuse itself with the idea that a text is created in a vacuum; it is fully aware that any text comes with its own interpretation already in mind – Authorial Intent. What AiD does do, is look to see if that intepretation came through in the text, and if it didn't, then it's not applicable to individual interpretations.


A good example of this is with the character Dumbledore, who was declared as gay after the fact by Rowling. But it wasn't in the text; while his relationship with Grindelwald can certainly be interpreted as either romantic or sexual, there is never anything in the text to infer that their relationship was based on anything other than intellectual interest. It's the same as shippers using the line “He was rapidly becoming obsessed with Draco Malfoy” as 'proof' that Harry was romantically/sexually interested in Draco. It's an interpretation, certainly, but not one that is backed up within the rest of the text as a whole.


So while the author may in fact see Draco Malfoy as “not a nice man,” the text just does not back that up, simply because we only ever see him as a child.


Draco vs. Dudley: The Dropped Ball



Authors quite often go in to writing with a clear interpretation in mind, but sometimes, during the course of writing, this interpretation shifts, becomes something else, as the words evolve into a story. Sometimes, what an author intends to create never makes it onto the page, and pieces get lost. For me, as a reader of the HP series, Draco was one of those pieces, as his character arc (or at least, my interpretation of his character) was never completed.


Draco is paralleled and connected thematically with a few other characters throughout the series. As Harry, Hermione, Ron and Neville are the next generation embodiment of the Marauders, Draco is the equivalent of Severus Snape. Like Draco, Regulus Black grew up believing in 'blood purity', and was attracted to the Death Eater party line. Until he realised exactly what it meant to be a Death Eater, and then it became too much to handle. But the character Draco is paralleled with the most is Dudley Dursley.


Before we even learn his name, Draco is connected with Dudley. When Harry meets him in Madam Malkin's, he is “strongly reminded of Dudley.” It's not the boy's features that bring Harry's cousin to mind; this boy is pale and pointy, rather than pink and rounded, and the boy is obviously comfortable in their wizarding surroundings. What reminds Harry of Dudley is the way Draco talks, and more specifically the way he talks about his father.


Like Draco, Dudley is over-indulged as a child. His parents buy him whatever he wants, praise all of his bad qualities, treat him as though he is born better than everyone else. He grows up believing everything his parents believe, picking on those less fortunate than himself, or on those his parents deem beneath them due to anything not 'normal' in their view. Dudley is a bully, who delights in taking advantage of the vulnerabilities of others, who, like Draco, uses the death of Harry's parents as fodder for taunts. He laughs over what little he knows of Harry's traumatic experiences at school... right up until these things start to affect himself.


After that, Dudley changes his tune somewhat. He has a moment in Book 6 where the supposed perfection of his childhood is questioned by Dumbledore and is confused by it. And then, in his last moments in the text, Dudley has a change of heart. He leaves a cup of tea for Harry, he agrees with him, even expresses worry over where Harry will be while they're in hiding. And in a quite telling piece of dialogue, we get these lines:


"Blimey, Dudley," said Harry over Aunt Petunia's renewed sobs, "did the dementors blow a different personality into you?"
"Dunno," muttered Dudley, "See you, Harry."


What's interesting about this is that actually, Harry's flippant question isn't too far from the truth. During the dementor attack in Book 5, Dudley is handed a a bit of a revelation about the type of person Harry is. Because despite the fact that he has been nothing but horrible to Harry throughout their entire lives, Harry still saves him. And, although it takes him close to two years to do so, he eventually comes to the realisation that his parents are wrong. Harry isn't a waste of space. Dudley is handed a moment of epiphany, and he takes it, as is rewarded with redemption.


Draco goes through all of these same steps when it comes to his relationship with Harry: he picks on him because he's been taught to believe that he is better than him and revels in that belief; he taunts Harry with the death of Cedric, just like Dudley. Then he gets his own taste of terrifying reality, and he balks, changes his tune during Book 6 and then refusing to identify Harry in the Manor. He's then saved by Harry from the Fiendfyre, despite the fact that he has been nothing but horrible to him as long as they've known each other.


The only step Draco is missing is the chance to try for redemption.


All of the characters Draco is thematically linked with throughout the series are offered redemption: Snape is proven to have been working for the right side after all; Regulus Black turns against Voldemort, and Dudley begins to create his own personality outside that of his father's own beliefs. But Draco's chance for redemption comes too late in the narrative; instead of having two years to ruminate on how Harry saved his life and how that affects him, he gets an hour at most, and then the story is over.


And this creates a problem for the narrative as a whole, because one of the main themes of the series is that strength lies in unity, that prejudice against people because they're Muggleborn, or because they can do magic, or because they were Sorted into a different house, is wrong and should be eradicated. But Draco represents the Slytherins and the purebloods, and with no sign of redemption for him, or even assimilation into the collective, this theme within the narrative remains forever incomplete.


It means that the war didn't so much achieve the eradication of prejudice as it did shift it in another direction, as evidenced by Ron's comments to his daughter in the epilogue. The idea of marrying a Pureblood has now become something to jokingly call unforgivable, and the same animosity between houses has been passed down to the next generation.


Had Draco been given the chance to accept his moment of redemption, however, that epilogue might have read very differently. Instead of staring across the platform at each other and having snide remarks thrown around, there might have been a moment of grudging respect, even polite friendliness. But because his chance came too late, the wizarding world is forced back on that merry-go-round of animosity and distrust.


With regard to canon, I don't think my interpretation of Draco Malfoy, or Slytherin House, is too far off the mark. In fact, if I were the type to take into account after-the-fact statements by the author, I might point out that some Slytherin students were apparently part of the reinforcements Slughorn brings back to the castle towards the end of the Battle. I might even point out that Rowling herself has stated that Draco is not “wholly bad,” that he “suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself” in order to bully others, and that she “felt sorry for Draco.” But I don't need to point these things out, because all of that is in the text.


But here's the thing: I believe in second chances. I believe that children have the right to make mistakes, and I believe that we have a duty to be more lenient with them when they haven't yet had a chance to become their own person, to decide the kind of person they want to be. In this respect, Harry was lucky; often left to his own devices, he was forced to decide for himself who he was at a much younger age than many of his counterparts. Ron too, had a similar affliction; the sixth son with few expectations laid upon him because his brothers have done it first. Hermione was, in a fashion, cut off from her parents by virtue of being born different to them. But, like Dudley, Draco wasn't afforded any of these chances to become his own person due to his circumstances. In this regard, he had more to fight against. As Dumbledore himself says, “It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends.” But it wasn't just his friends Draco would have had to stand up against, it was his family, his entire way of life.


So I don't think it makes me too bad of a person to sympathise with this, rather lost, young boy.




Questions? Thoughts? Bludgers waiting to be thrown at my head? All are welcome! :)

Date: 2014-11-26 02:15 am (UTC)
gracerene: (HP: Draco (Hogwarts))
From: [personal profile] gracerene
Yay! This was so interesting! I love reading your everything apparently!

But yes! These are almost my exact thoughts only put much more eloquently then I could ever manage. I especially love your point about us never really getting to see Draco as a man.

I hadn't ever really considered the comparison of Dudley vs. Draco as far as the redemption arc goes, but that's a really compelling point!

So glad you posted this, really great read! :D

Re:

Date: 2014-11-26 09:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
Haha, thank you! I'm so glad I finally found it, and that you enjoyed it and found it interesting! <3

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 08:18 am (UTC)
birdsofshore: (super flap)
From: [personal profile] birdsofshore
Omg, I ADORE your Draco feels. I'd like to get to know them a whole lot better, in fact, my Draco feels would like to take your Draco feels out to dinner, have a few glasses of wine, and then... *eyebrow waggle* see what happens after that.

I have a few things to say, but mostly just that I agree with you SO MUCH.

(I also defend JKR's wonderful writing and respect her right to write what she wants, however she wants, but I have FEELS too.)

Time and time again in canon, JKR shows Draco as not only a bigoted, cowardly bully, but someone who is vulnerable and conflicted. She then expects us to be satisfied without a redemption arc for him. I feel this omission contributes to the *cough* obsession some of us have with saving Draco and giving him Harry's love, again and again. (I need SOMETHING to blame :D)

I sometimes wonder if JKR was influenced by her feelings about the Draco fangirls. Draco seems PRIME for some kind of redemption, the story flirts in that direction again and again, but it never arrives. It's almost as if she thought, at the last, NO, LOOK, HE REALLY IS A SHIT, SEE, I TOLD YOU, BUT YOU WOULDN'T LISTEN.

Of course I must admit that his lack of redemption is a boon to those of us who sometimes like to write littleshit!Draco, or even olderbutstillacompletebastard!Draco. She did us a BIG favour, there :DD

I very much like your points about self-preservation, and would like to add the Fiendfyre scene to the evidence for this. This genuinely surprised me when I read it in canon, as I would have absolutely predicted Draco *would* show self-preservation in this situation. I had never imagined he felt true loyalty or love towards his rather 2d henchmen. Instead we see him with his arms round the unconscious Goyle, protecting him, and when Harry turns up to rescue him, and takes Draco's hand, Draco still doesn't let go of Goyle and clamber on until Hermione drags Goyle onto her broom.

Malfoy saw him coming, and raised one arm, but even as Harry grasped it he knew at once that it was no good: Goyle was too heavy and Malfoy's hand, covered in sweat, slid instantly out of Harry's

I must go to work, but Mr Birds just saw me frantically typing and flipping through Deathly Hallows and said, "Oh god, let me guess: someone on the internet is wrong."

"No, no." I said. "Someone on the internet is RIGHT."

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 09:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
Time and time again in canon, JKR shows Draco as not only a bigoted, cowardly bully, but someone who is vulnerable and conflicted. THIS, SO MUCH THIS. He's actually given much more of these little moments than Dudley, who gets his time to rethink his worldview, while Draco is left to flounder in the ambiguous. I too sometimes wonder if he was originally primed for a redemption arc, until JKR became "concerned" with the fangirls and wanted to make a point? (And considering her point was about girls wanting to 'change' supposed bad boys, I understand completely. It's just that I don't think Draco embodies that role within the text.)

And YES, the Fiendfyre scene with Goyle, and then when he breaks down in the corridor afterwards and cries for Crabbe - these are definitely moments that point to Draco being much more than just a bully, imo.

"No, no." I said. "Someone on the internet is RIGHT." HAHAHAHA I LOVE THAT YOU AGREE WITH ME! <3

We must set up a date for your Draco feels and mine, who knows what might happen! ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 01:57 pm (UTC)
birdsofshore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] birdsofshore
I too sometimes wonder if he was originally primed for a redemption arc, until JKR became "concerned" with the fangirls and wanted to make a point?

Once you've thought it, you can't unthink it, right?

FWIW I actually DON'T think she probably swerved from a different path for Draco, but the way she flirts with redemption for Draco and then pulls back does make you wonder. And she did surprise me, often, with the way she steered Draco - Fiendfyre and the aftermath, yes, crying for Crabbe! These were wonderful insights and I'm in awe of her skill at giving these glimpses into a more complex character and not always following a predictable story arc.

We must set up a date for your Draco feels and mine, who knows what might happen!

My Draco feels are totally twirling their moustaches at yours in a rakish fashion, baby. ♥

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] this-bloody-cat.livejournal.com
"No, no." I said. "Someone on the internet is RIGHT."

Birds!! :') ♥♥♥

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 09:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com
I have to write today, so I don't have time to write an essay countering the points you've made, but I will maybe next week. I've heard all these points before. They are very common in fandom amongst the people who for whatever reason want to sympathise with the Slytherins rather than read them for what they're meant to symbolise on a thematic level. For people who seem intent on ignoring the greater ideas JKR was trying to express in this story.

OF COURSE the house rivalry was still extant during the epilogue. Humans were still humans and one war was never going to erase social inequality and the values that support it from the culture on a permanent basis.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 10:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
I would love to see any essay you would like to write, it would be very interesting to read!

The problem I have is that we can either view Slytherins as a 'symbol', or we can view them as 'human', we can't interchange between these views when it suits us. If we accept that social inequality is a by-product of the good guys being human, then we must also accept that Slytherins were human too, and that some of them may deserve sympathy rather than being lumped into a symbol.

I mean, we all know that Slytherins with all their blood purity were a basic thematic metaphor for racism within our own culture. That's like, HP reading 101. But the people who tar all of the Slytherins with the same brush, who remove their human traits in order to see them only as a symbol - those are the same people who see problematic posts on Tumblr and roll their eyes and say, "ugh, white girls, amirite?" instead of trying to erase their ignorance through knowledge.

No, of course one war (well, three; this was Voldemort's second go round, and there was that whole thing with Grindelwald after all) wasn't going to eradicate social inequality completely - as much as I would wish it otherwise, that seems to be an innate part of the human condition. But what that epilogue does is point out that not only is social inequality still rife, but that if it's coming from the side of good, then apparently "all is well." But for me, it's not, and I think that if Draco had had the chance to make his own choices, then that epilogue could have shown some kind of improvement - however little - rather than just a shift in the social dynamic. Just my opinion, obviously.

For people who seem intent on ignoring the greater ideas JKR was trying to express in this story. That's not me, I am perfectly aware of the myriad ideas JKR explored in her works. I'm also not ignoring the fact that HP is a Christ narrative which ends with resurrection and redemption. We had the resurrection, and Voldemort was given the chance for redemption, so why wasn't Draco? When he is, quite obviously, the HP counterpart for Pontius Pilate, who was forgiven by Christ, because, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Edited Date: 2014-11-26 10:36 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 11:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com
The individual characters in the story are individual characters, and the ones who play significant roles in the story are fleshed out into believably human characters. Slytherin, as a House, is meant to represent the Conservative/privileged/individualistic section of society. The characters labelled as Slytherins in the books fit that label to greater or lesser degrees. They vary. There are Slytherins with some Gryffindor characteristics, and the opposite.

In reading the HP series or any series you need to view the text on a variety of levels in order to gain meaning. There's the thematic level and there's the level of the basic plot. In a well-written story, those things support each other. I very strong believe that the HP series is successful in that regard. You don't 'interchange' between viewing Slytherins as members of their House or as human beings, you read them as both at the same time.

JKR treats the Slytherins as deserving Sympathy. She shows an enormous amount of Sympathy for Draco as a character. You even touched on that in your essay. She treats Snape as deserving of Sympathy, and Regulus, and Slughorn and even Tom Riddle.

No one is tarring Slytherins with the same brush here. They are a varied bunch in the books, some, like Riddle, are pure villains and some, like Regulus, are heroes. Some, like Draco, are elsewhere on the spectrum. But if they were sorted into Slytherin than they share certain core values to a greater or lesser degree.

Ron lightly teasing his son about an old school rivalry (which was very in character for him specifically and not meant to be read as a general message to the readers) is not an indication "social inequality is coming from the side of good". It was a bit of humour. One of the clear messages of the HP series is that good and bad are very muddy concepts. The message we were meant to take to heart was the one Harry gave Albus moments later--if he did end up in Slytherin, than Slytherin would have a great new member. And Slytherins could be brave, like Snape.

There will always be Slytherins and people with Gryffindor values will always side-eye them, partially for good reason, but being a Slytherin doesn't prevent anyone from being brave or being a good, valuable person.

I disagree with you strongly about whether or not Draco had his chance at redemption. He had his chances--when he chose not to kill Dumbledore and again in the Manor when he chose not to identify Harry. Given who he was for the previous books in the series, that's incredibly significant and about as much as one could expect whilst keeping him in character. He stood up to the father who had brainwashed him, he chose care for another human being over his own immediate self-interest. That was more than enough for me, and more than enough for Harry, given Harry chose to risk his own life to save Draco's later on. This wasn't Draco's story. He was a secondary character. The focus of the story wasn't on him and it didn't need to be on him.

Draco nodded at Harry in the epilogue, which I see as an improvement. I'm not sure what more you wanted from him in that scene? Given, like I said, that he was a secondary character?

Yes, Harry is a Jesus figure, Dumbledore is God on a symbolic level (and a character in his own right on another level), Grindlewald was Lucifer. I'm having a harder time seeing Draco as Pontius Pilate, but I'll think on it some more. Although Harry does forgive him, he saves his life, so...

Anyway, I meant what I said, I have to write Erised today as my due date is in two days. And if I let myself I spend all my free time discussing Draco with you instead. I will write an essay next week and we can talk about it more then.




(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 12:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
I won't reply again here, not only because I don't want to distract you from your writing, but also because I think we'd probably just end up going round the houses, haha! I find your interpretation very interesting though, and would love to read a more fully fleshed out reasoning at a later date!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kedavranox.livejournal.com
I just have to add that this made me think...who reads stories for themes and Greater Ideas anyway??

I certainly don't read books to for themes and morals. That sounds like such a bore. So obviously, as I'm not reading so I can enjoy a theme, I'm not going to relate with the idea of using characters -- people as just symbols of something Great. Or some kind of morality message.

Nope.

Edited Date: 2014-11-26 06:17 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com

I read books for their themes and ideas pretty much exclusively. When I'm reading any kind of story, part of my mind is following the plot and the other part is trying to figure out what the writer is trying to communicate. Books that only function on a plot level only engage me on a surface level. I can enjoy them, but they're disposable and they don't stick in my heart or my mind.

A good writer doesn't use characters as symbols, she develops characters and tells a story in a way that provokes thought and ideas.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 06:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kedavranox.livejournal.com
A good writer doesn't use characters as symbols, she develops characters and tells a story in a way that provokes thought and ideas.

Surprised you said that, as your previous comment implies exactly the opposite.

I'm not sure why you're saying themes and symbols are the only way to engage the reader on a deeper level though.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com
No, I don't think it does imply the opposite. Harry is a Christ figure and his character functions on that level in the books, particularly in relation to Dumbledore. But he's also a fully fleshed out character in his own right. One can enjoy Harry as Harry, but one can also appreciate how his journey mirrors the human struggle to come to terms with mortality.

A character who has symbolic value isn't only a symbol. What I said was that a good writer can make the text communicate on more than one level at once.

Please don't read some insult into this Nox, I'm just explaining my own personal way of reading, not condemning other people's. I never said that themes and symbols are the only way to engage the reader on a deeper level. One can be engaged emotionally and that can go deep. But I, personally, want to be stimulated with ideas as well.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kedavranox.livejournal.com

The implication that I got was that to read these books on ‘a deeper level’ I must read them academically and accept the limits of that academic symbolism as static character traits.
If Author Z has written character X as a symbol for Issue 1 then character X cannot be motivated by anything other than that, and that if I view the actions of character X (who can easily be replaced by the label Issue 1 at this point) as motivated or defined by something else (or even if I view him as surpassing Issue 1 or breaking the mould of Issue 1) then my grasp on character X is incomplete/incorrect, as I don’t have Issue 1 on the forefront of my mind when contemplating character X.
I cannot reconcile myself to this. It makes me depressed both as a writer and a reader of fiction.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com
I think we are actually using the word "symbol" in different ways.

It's not about academic style reading for me. I actually have an aversion to 'academic', as defined as the way literature is being taught these days, styles of analysis. I just do my own thing.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
If you don't mind my asking, what is it about academic teaching of literature that you're so averse to?

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-27 09:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com
I think I mentioned this? I don't like the emphasis on AiD and "personal interpretations". I think it teaches student to be lazy in their analysis and that "all interpretations are valid" is simply not true, depending on how you define "valid". "Interesting" might be a better choice of word.

The example you give of the student who analysed everything through a veil of Star Trek, for example. That kind of thing makes great pub chat, but I don't think it's meaningful to anyone else. I don't think it sheds any true light on the source material.

When I interact with a work of art, I'm trying to figure out what the artist is trying to communicate with me. That's pretty much all I'm interested in. I can get personal inspiration from a work even if I'm not tuned into the author's intent, but I wouldn't expect that to be interesting to anyone else.

I basically believe that the the AiD style of analysis and styles that ignore authorial intent are inherently flawed, illogical and very self-indulgent, and yet they seem to be the status quo in universities these days.

And in fandom, specifically, I see people using it as an excuse to claim some really warped, blinkered and even offensive readings of canon and then to claim that their interpretations are valid because all interpretations are valid.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-27 11:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
LOL okay, you realise you just called my literal career "flawed, illogical and very self-indulgent," right? It's okay, I'm not offended, because I believe everyone has their right to an opinion, but I think you might be misinterpreting what AiD actually is? It's not a philosophy that says you can claim whatever you want under the umbrella of "all interpretations are valid yo!" It's that all interpretations that can be supported by the text are valid, and that includes authorial intent.

It doesn't actually teach students to be lazy, because what it does is accept the idea that literature is a form of dialogue between the author and the reader, and understands that this dialogue goes both ways. This means that while the author is bringing certain intentions and life experiences into their work, the reader is also doing the same thing, and AiD accepts that both sides of that discussion have equal weight, as long as they are supported by the text. Quite simply, what AiD does is teach students to understand that texts can have multiple readings, and to look at each of them before coming to your own conclusions. I don't see how that's lazy at all.

When I interact with a work of art, I'm trying to figure out what the artist is trying to communicate with me. I know a lot of artists, and I can tell you that each one of them would first ask their viewers, "What do you get out of it?" Art, in all forms, is about expression, and what is the point of expression without any sort of return? AiD teaching gives us that return, connects us all through dialogue, and that is the most interesting thing about Art in its entirety.

As the great Walt Whitman wrote, "The question, O me! so sad, recurring—What good amid these, O me, O life?/Answer./That you are here—that life exists and identity,/That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.

I'd really rather contribute a verse, than simply look for meaning in those of others.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-27 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inglevine.livejournal.com
I'm trying quite hard not to express it, but your essay did upset me. I'm exhausted of being surrounded in fandom by people with these point of views about the Slytherins. And the comments you've received in which people seem to be basically using Draco as a means to justify treating other people badly... It upsets me a lot. That's not what the books are about, and I suspect that's part of why JKR said what she did about Draco not being nice. If you recognise a negative quality in yourself, you should strive to change it, not embrace it. People need to earn their second chances.
(Which Draco did, and the fact that he survived the series into adulthood is evidence that he received his second chance.)

I can imagine that when the AiD philosophy is used as it was meant to be used, it sometimes produces interesting results. However, I am burnt out on it from seeing too many truly bad (and by bad, I mean not supported by the text and clearly ignoring authorial intent) "personal interpretations" of the HP series (and Hunger Games and other media) written by fandomers who justify their opinions by claiming AiD. I've just read way too much nonsense in which someone confuses their head canon with actual canon and ignores the obvious themes of the books.

I'll quote Georgia O'Keefe: “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”

I think it's lazy, because it stops readers from putting in the work to truly analyse a text. Instead, they take a short cut and substitute their own meaning. If you ignore the fact that JKR implied that Dumbledore is a god figure, you're going to miss out on a whole lot of meaning in the HP series and probably end up frustrated.

I don't agree that both sides have equal weight. If I say something to you, you don't get to decide what I meant. You may have something interesting to add to my thoughts or another perspective on it, but you don't get equal weight as far as my own intent is concerned.

I know a lot of artists too and a lot of writers. I know that as a writer, when someone sees something interesting and meaningful in something I wrote but which I didn't intend to communicate, it's nice, but I don't feel that I can take credit for it.

"Art, in all forms, is about expression, and what is the point of expression without any sort of return?" -- But that's my point. Analysing what an artist was trying to say and then moving on from that point is giving them a return, and a more respectful one, imo.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-27 12:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
I'm sorry that my essay upset you, that wasn't my intention, I just wanted to put my own personal opinion out there and see what other people thought.

However, if the author's intent has more weight, if I didn't intend for it to be upsetting, then as the author, surely that means it isn't? That means that your feelings aren't valid, which I don't believe. This is what I mean by it being a dialogue - I share my thoughts with you, and while I don't take responsibility for how you take them, I do acknowledge that your feelings have merit. It's not about taking credit for things, it's about communication, and a sense of togetherness that we, as social creatures, both want and need.

You keep saying things like "That's not what the books are about,", but you can't know that for sure, not unless you've sat down with JKR and gone over what every single word said to you and she nodded along and said "yep, you got it exactly right, well done." It's your own interpretation (which you are certainly entitled to have) but you seem to be confusing it with fact.

I don't really know why people having opinions different to your own upsets you, but I'm not going to apologise for having them. They're mine to have, just as your opinions are yours to have, and I don't think that JKR or any other writer in the world would want to take those opinions away from us, even if they are different from their own.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
I'll admit that I do, because after spending 8 years studying how to do exactly that and then going off to teach others how to do it, it's kind of hard to turn it off. I do read for just plain enjoyment as well though, because I don't always need 'deeper meaning' in order to enjoy a good story.

But I agree with not relating to the idea of using characters as just symbols; I'm never going to agree with that; it's too reminiscent of all the social problems we still see in media, where people are being reduced down to stereotypes.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] this-bloody-cat.livejournal.com
Oh... wow. Yeah. Those are my thoughts -- only in much prettier words, because you write beautifully, as usual ♥ And what you mention about Draco never getting a chance of redemption... well. I know I've mentioned this before, but yes. I agree with you on this. This was, in fact, one of the few things that made me infinitely sad as I reached the end of the series -- I thought, I've been that person as well, as a child. I got infinite chances to prove I could be better -- some of them I took, some I didn't, but regardless of that I still believe everyone deserves such chances, including Draco, and that no matter what you've done or lived through in your childhood, it doesn't always colour the rest of your adult life in a bad way. Some people do learn from their mistakes, or at least learn to recognise them as mistakes (some, undoubtedly, don't... but this group also includes 'good PREJUDICED people'). That's what I believe, anyway xD

And you know, about this, as with most things, I believe people are allowed to have different opinions -- regardless of what JKR says, we don't all have to agree with her on this, since opinions are part of the cognitive process and we've all had a different set of experiences, and therefore I believe no opinion can be right/wrong by default, not even the ones we agree/disagree with (though we're allowed to keep on disagreeing, as long as we do so respectfully :'D And facts can definitely be wrong. But opinions, opinions are open for discussion).
Edited Date: 2014-11-26 11:20 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
I think the main reason why so many readers identify so strongly with Slytherins, and with Draco in particular, is because we've all been that person, especially as children. We learn via our surroundings, and some people fare better than others in that respect. But we all make mistakes - to err is human, after all. We identify with them because we all have negative qualities, but the existence of those don't make us bad people, and we know that just because those bad qualities exist, it doesn't negate the fact that good qualities must also exist, and we know that within the framework of the text, those good qualities are being ignored, and we want to rectify that. If Harry can have all of the traits that would let him do well in Slytherin and still be a hero, then surely that must mean that some Slytherins exist who also have that ability? And so we transfer that hope onto Draco, who unfortunately was never given the chance to prove that fact for us.

And I agree, opinions and experiences are a part of the cognitive process, and therefore we will always come across people who will interpret things differently to us. People will always agree and disagree over things, and when it comes to opinions, no one person will ever be right.

Thanks for reading, sweetie! <3

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 12:35 pm (UTC)
my_thestral: (Default)
From: [personal profile] my_thestral
Very interesting character study indeed, it's obvious you've given this a lot of thought and put in a considerable amount of work for research. :)
Personally, I'm not a big fan of the "book" Draco - I happen to think he was given an extra-quality by Tom Felton's interpretation in the movies - but I agree that there are certainly a lot of facts that explain (though not exactly excuse or justify) his behaviour. We start out primarily as what we're made of by our genes, life experiences and circumstances - and then come our choices, mostly after our individuality develops and sets us on a different track that we were supposed to take (at least according to the milieu we grew up in). I think in this space between is where the enigma of Draco Malfoy lies.
He's clearly more complex that the books entail - and however we turn the HP series, they are children's books and some important aspects of adults' lives never get discussed in them (the preferred topic of fandom, sex, being just one of those ;)), even though they mark the period of growing up considerably. I think if it could be guaranteed that the 11-year-olds would only read the first book and wouldn't read the second until they were 12 and so on until they were 17 - the books could have been a lot different.:)
In my opinion there is simply not enough known about Draco's motivation for some of his later choices to make an educated guess whether he was going to turn out a good man or not. Him stalling and not willing to identify Harry for who he was could be interpreted as an act of limited repentenance, or simply a very calculated decision not to pick sides - Potter is one resilient bloke, he's always found a way to be victorious so far - what if he finds a way to win this? From this perspective Draco could be what we percieve to be the ultimate Slytherin: playing both sides, more a son of his clearly cunning mother than his openly hostile (one could argue even deluded) father. Or again - it could be some sort of rebellious teenage embarrassment that he's being pushed about in full view of his ex-schoolmates who clearly took their destiny into their own hands (I worked in the youth centre for a while, teens have the most bizarre motivations for their behaviour). The fact remains that this story is not focused upon Draco, so there's simply no way to tell for certain.
I think what Rowling meant with that "not a nice man" referred more to personality than it did to the age of the person in question: clearly Draco is not a fully grown adult, but he has certain traits that indicate however unproblematic he would be in the post-war new world order, he's never going to be a completely pleasant man - for one, he enjoys actively humiliating and pestering people he perceives as "less" a little too much. But this is not to say, he is without redeeming qualities - his love for his family definitely makes the list.
Anyway - I don't even know why I started this blabbing, I guess I just wanted to point out you've done a good job of it and then, like usual, my thoughts just poured out like dirty flood. Sorry about that. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 08:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
No I loved your comment, don't apologise! <3

I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the part about how Draco lies somewhere between circumstances and choices which, I think, is exactly how I feel about the character, and what I mean when I say he hasn't had the time to think about his choices for himself.

And while I agree that JKR meant personality rather than age, I still find her words somewhat problematic, because she gave us an incomplete character - he has to be incomplete, because he's still just a child, still learning and growing. And while that's fine, good even - it's not like all characters need to be complete by the story's end; in fact, just the opposite - but when she includes him in an epilogue that is expressly about giving us the form in which our HEA takes place, it kind of highlights the fact that Draco is stuck somewhere still in that place as you so eloquently described. We know the kind of man Harry becomes, and that of his friends, but that question is left very much up for debate, leaving us with only snippets of what JKR thinks of him in interviews (which I don't pay attention to, because of the aforementioned Author is Dead principle) imo.

Your comment was really interesting, thank you!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kedavranox.livejournal.com
I agree with a lot of what you say here, but I do fall out of line with you at the point where you say that Draco had no chances for redemption, because I don't think that's true.

I also don't think it's relevant to Draco's character. What *is* redemption anyway. Maybe his personal redemption was sparing Dumbledore, or not identifying Harry.

'Redemption' in itself seems a rather idealistic notion that doesn't match up with the HP world in my mind.

Also some part of the essay seem way too apologist for my tastes. I don't need to excuse all the shit Draco's done in order to empathise.sympathise with him. I sympaathise with him regardless, but only because I've allowed myself to go a little deeper into his character and what his character 'represents' in the books.

Anyway that's all I can say now while I'm at work and should not be on LJ... O_o

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 07:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
I've realised since posting that I didn't really mean no chance of redemption for Draco - what I mean, rather, is that he doesn't have the chance to assimilate these moments and consider what they mean for him: choice. He lowers his wand on the Tower, and then is immediately thrust back into the world of Death Eaters; he doesn't give up Harry and then is left running for his life from Voldemort's wrath. Unlike Dudley, who has two years to think about what Harry did for him and what that means for him; unlike Regulus, who had time to realise that this life wasn't what he wanted and had the time to decide what he wanted to do with this new knowledge.

And I agree, for the most part, that redemption doesn't mean much for the character that we see, but I do think that the existence or non-existence of it changes perspective.

Your comment was super interesting; I would love to learn more about what you see when you look deeper into his character. Perhaps at a time when you're not skipping out on work to come on LJ, haha!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 10:07 pm (UTC)
nia_kantorka: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nia_kantorka
I would love to leave a thoughtful comment but am too tired. Anyway, your essay stuck with me over the day (read it first thing in the morning and was quite awake afterwards LOL) and I can relate to a lot of things you said.

I always despised canon!Draco until he lowered his wand on the Astronomy Tower because people who didn't think for themselves and just parrot their surroundings are just urgh. It might have been self-preservation or some other intention, I don't care. Finally he showed his own thoughts and feelings and not indoctrinated ones.

I'm not sure about Slytherin house and it's part. But I always thought that Harry's world is a really gruesome one and though Hogwards was the only home to the lost ones (Harry, Snape, and Voldemort) its teachers and pedagogical approach was beyond horrible.
Seriously, would you have wanted to have a teacher like Snape (and maybe be treated like Neville)? Or such a manipulative headmaster like Dumbledore? Thank you very much. Therefore I can't relate to matching the characters to biblical figures (like done in the comments) though it's obvious that the books are a fable about good and evil.

Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to reading inglevine's thoughts as well.

I really enjoyed your essay and reading all the comments (especially my_thestral's one :D).

Sorry, for this incoherent mess. I stop now before it is getting even worse.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-26 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
Your comment is more than thoughtful enough, and very interesting! I'm glad I gave you some things to think about :)

I always despised canon!Draco until he lowered his wand on the Astronomy Tower...

I was bullied a lot at school. Because I was the only non-white girl in the entire place, because I inadvertantly blurted out the fact that I liked girls, for my mental illness, for my strangely literal way of looking at things, you name it, I was picked on for it. And you know how they say that if you act like it doesn't affect you, the bullies will eventually leave you alone? Well, that didn't work for one particular boy. It didn't matter what I did, he kept on, for five. fucking. years He was absolutely horrible to me, calling me out on everything from my frizzy hair to my - unfortunately very public - suicide attempt, he just wouldn't let up. Then, a few years after high school, we bumped into each other in the middle of London, and he apologised for how he'd behaved towards me. When I asked him why, he said, "because I had everything. I was popular, people looked up to me, I had loads of friends and girlfriends, and I wasn't happy. But you were, even though you had none of that, and it just felt so unfair at the time."

So now, whenever I come across a character like that, I always think about that boy. It doesn't excuse what he put me through, but it does explain it. He had reasons for why he behaved the way he did, as does everyone, and although those reasons don't excuse the way we act, I find that knowing that makes it easier to understand people. When it comes to Draco, we don't know his reasons - maybe he was unhappy, maybe he was really just an asshole - but I do find it interesting to think about what those possible reasons may be, which is why I find the character so fascinating.

But again, this might just be my strangely literal way of looking at things, haha!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-29 07:55 am (UTC)
nia_kantorka: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nia_kantorka
I was only bullied for two years in school (5th and 6th grade, then I changed classes because they had been pooled). But it was a horrible time and I hated the initiators (three boys). All three weren't the brightest and they didn't manage to finish their A-Levels in our grammar school.

I suppose they were frustrated (and probably had trouble at home too) but to know (or guess) their intentions didn't make them more bearable for me or their other victims (they had the whole class under their heel).
So, you seem to be much nicer and more understanding than I am because I'm still cross with them. Maybe this would have changed if I had got an apology as well. I can be forgiving, but not solely out the goodness of my heart.
Seems like I'm definitely no martyr material like Harry is (to come back to HP at last :)). I would have never been a bully either.

But I'm all for second chances. If someone regrets their actions, they should be able to show and get a chance to change their lives. In that way the epilogue is not very satisfying wether I think of Draco or other other characters I would have love to get more information about.

Have a lovely weekend, hon!


Edited Date: 2014-11-29 07:56 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-11-29 10:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
Oh I get that; as with all things, people are entitled to their own opinions and feelings, and reactions to things that happen to them. I guess I just like to understand things, and that's what it was for me - I knew why I was being bullied by other people (I wasn't 'normal' in their eyes) but this boy's behaviour was confusing, because he didn't react like the rest of them did. His attacks were more personal, as though I specifically had done something to him at some point. So when I was given the reason why, I guess it made it easier for me to deal with. But I understand that not everyone is like that. Like I said, I can be strangely literal, so this can make it easier for me to move on from things. I don't think that makes me nicer, just different in how I view things, maybe?

<3

(no subject)

Date: 2015-10-17 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crystalgreene.livejournal.com
Hello Lauren, I enjoyed your essay so very much. Compelling arguing, great insights. I loved how you compared Draco's arc to Dudley's; very enlightning. You are so right about that dropped ball. In the comments someone claims Draco did get his moments of redemption, when he didn't kill Dumbledore and later when he didn't give Harry away. But these scenes don't qualify as redemption imo. Both scenes are instances where Draco's true nature is revealed under pressure, and the choices he makes prove him to be essentially a good person. What we don't get is a moment of reflection and acknowledgement of this. A small gesture would have made such a difference here. Like Harry offering to shake hands with Draco, mirroring and revoking that scene in the first book when Harry rejected Draco's hand. Some might argue that Harry does offer his hand to Draco in the Room of Requirements when he saves Draco's life. But again, what's missing is the reflection and acknowledgement of what this means for their relationship. Yeah, I very much agree with you about that dropped ball. It really is a major flaw of the series (in my humble opinion), and not only speaking from a Drarryshipper's point of view.
After all it's Dumbledore himself who says it's people's choices that matter. The message would have been so much stronger if Draco's choices had been recognised in some way, and if the purpose of the Hogwarts' Houses had been clearly redefined as what it always should have been, simply to provide a framework for playful competition, not an excuse for prejudice and putting labels on people. It's always about the individual, isn't it?
Yeah, that's just my two Knuts, all I wanted to say really is that I admire your analysis. Great Job, and thank you for sharing! Best wishes, Crystal




(no subject)

Date: 2015-10-19 08:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
Hi Crystal!

It's nice to find someone else who agrees that Draco's redemption arc was a dropped ball! And I agree with you too; those scenes where he does something right don't qualify as redemption imo, but rather instances from where his redemption could have begun, much like Dudley's run in with the dementors. (And don't even get me started on the Houses; that epilogue will forever make me all squinty-eyed at the continued practice of prejudice, tbh.)

Thanks for stopping by with your thoughts, I always find other people's interpretations so interesting to read about! Oh, and I'm gonna follow you back, hope that's okay! ♥

(no subject)

Date: 2015-10-20 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crystalgreene.livejournal.com
Hello Lauren, obviously I'm honoured you'll follow me back. I've just started checking out your work on AO3, and I already know I'm going to be a huge fan. All the best, Crystal!

(no subject)

Date: 2015-10-20 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lauren3210.livejournal.com
Oh goodness, I'm all nervous now! I hope you enjoy them! ♥
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